[box type=”info”] There has been an update to the proposed changes to the CSA, basically they are going ahead. To find out more try the interactive post on Gingerbread. [/box]
Letters are being sent out to single parents in Britain telling them about the changes.
Talking about the csa is never a fun conversation piece and especially now it’s causing a storm with new change proposals. Over at 2starsandaswirl there is a post about her campaign to stop the proposed changes. Please do stop by and support her.
So what’s the new csa changes proposed?
Basically the government wants more parents to take responsibility for negotiating their own child maintenance arrangements. They are proposing to phase out the CSA in 2012 and create a new system run by the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission ( CMEC). This will of course be good news for some but there is also aspects of it that aren’t so good for others, particularly single parent families.
For starters there will be an upfront fee of £100 to use the CMEC service. There would also be an ongoing charge for collecting money. This would be between 7% and 12% of the maintenance. If you’re on benefits the start up cost would be halved and the rest payable in instalments. So as I read it if you’re struggling to get money from the absent parent you will have to pay the CMEC to help. Isn’t that hitting the people struggling even more?
The other thing they want to introduce is charging the non-resident parent between 15 and 20% of the maintenance they pay. This is on top of the maintenance figure they would pay each month. If the non-resident has arranged to pay the parent with care directly then they don’t have to pay the % charge.
Confused? Here’s an example.
Mr and Mrs Smith have divorced and baby smith lives with Mrs Smith. Mr Smith doesn’t want to pay maintenance so Mrs Smith goes to the CMEC to get a calculation. (That’s £25 spent)
CMEC say that Mr Smith should pay £10 a week. Brilliant, but Mr Smith refuses to pay so Mrs Smith has to chase the £10 a week via CMEC but first she has to pay a £100 application fee. (£125 so far in fees)
Mr Smith is still being allusive so Mrs Smith uses CMEC’s collection service. Although they collect £10 Mrs Smith will only receive £8.80, the rest is fees.
Over the first year Mrs Smith only receives £332.60 for baby smith even though 52 x £10 is £520. Over at Mr Smith’s house his payment to CMEC is £12 a week. £10 for baby smith and £2 in fees.
I can see what they are trying to achieve as Mr Smith is likeier to not want to pay the extra fees and Mr and Mrs Smith work it all out between them, except one problem. Not everyone who divorces/separates can sit down and talk about it sensibly. If that was the case there wouldn’t have been the birth of CSA in the first place. It also hits the lower income families the most where every penny counts. So what happens when the low income families don’t have the spare cash to pay for the service?
Want to know more then head over to Gingerbread.
Personally I have contacted my local MP and I will be sending him a link to this page. We wait to see if he pops by and I will keep you posted.
[box] My MP has replied to my email, I asked if this was right and here is what he said.
“As I understand it, you are basically right. Under the proposed new system, parents will be able to get initial help and information on the range of options available to them free of charge. They can then decide whether to make their own arrangements, using the help they have received or to use the statutory service for which there will be a charge. There is a consultation at the moment which finishes on 7 April 2011. More information can be found at http://dwp.gov.uk/policy/child-maintenance/. It would be well worth you bringing the consultation to people’s attention so they can respond.”
So there you go, one consultation brought to your notice.[/box]
You have made some very valid points here. However, here’s another scenario…
Mrs Smith is domestically violent towards Mr Smith to the point where he is forced to move out to protect himself. Mr Smith finds that there is very little support for him and finds himself sleeping on the sofa at his brother’s house. Social services think this isn’t a good place for children to sleep over and the children’s relationship with their dad is restricted to a couple of hours in a contact centre once a fortnight. Mrs Smith contacts the CSA who demand that Mr Smith pays Mrs Smith for the privilege of losing the roof over his head and his relationship with his children.
or…
Mr and Mrs Smith decide to separate. They go to court and get a joint residence order and agree to share all of the caring responsibilities as far as possible. However, once outside the court, Mrs Smith (being the holder of the Child Benefit book) decides that she’ll make a claim for child Maintenance. The CSA make an assessment that Mr should pay Mrs Smith 30% of his earnings despite the fact that he is providing 50% of the care and gets none of the Child Benefit. Mrs Smith also applies for a child tax credit which (being the holder of the Child Benefit book) she receives. Mr Smith applies for a child tax credit and is told that it can only be paid to one parent – the parent with the child benefit book.
There are issues associated with any system, but one that encourages collaboration has to be better. And one last point, the CSA was not brought in to being because parents were unable to reach agreements – as Henshaw identified in his 2006 report, it was about cutting the social security bill.
Superbly well put sir.
Another scenario.
Mrs.Smith decides to have an affair because Mr.Smith has been unwell for a protracted period. Knowing full the news of the affair will destroy Mr.Smith, Mrs.Smith rubs it in his face at every opportunity.
Mr.Smith, unable to cope with Mrs.Smith’s disloyalty and dishonour towards him, feels he has no choice but to leave his family home and children of over 10 years and because of his financial situation is forced to live in a rabbit hutch of a flat with a rent twice that of his mortgage on his comfortable family home.
Mr.Smith has a job with minimum wage whilst Mrs.Smith, who hasn’t worked for over 15 years, gets over £15k per annum in benefits, a free car and motoring expenses (motability for their eldest daughter)and spends her time going to the gym and training for marathons.
Mr.Smith then gets letters and aggressive phone calls from the CSA demanding money or face prosecution. When Mr.Smith sees his little girl she tells him that ‘mummy said you’re not a very nice person cos you don’t give us money and you owe her an apology.’
Mr.Smith, who is already heart broken, susceptible and has a life in tatters ends up in hospital after taking an overdose.
How about Mr amd Mrs Smith have 2 children and they have one each? Mr smith works and pays £38 pounds a week and Mrs Smith doesent wanna work and pays £5 a week?
My two children receive £200 a year from there father via the CSA. Their father is clever at playing the system , because he is self employed he ensures his tax return is below £5000 a year, yet his life style certainly doesn’t reflect this in any way – I won’t bore you with I am sure familiar details. There is nothing more I can do via the CSA to increase the figure and I accept that. Should there be a fee charged, it wouldn’t be worth me trying to recuperate this meager sum of £200 as it would all go on fees payable by me- yet again he get away with not supporting his children at all.
Negotiating with him is not an option as he has made it clear he doesn’t want to contribute at all.
In the final divorce settlement I was advised to leave the maintenance and sort it out with the CSA . Going back to court is damaging for all in every sense apart from taking up valuable time I need to spend on supporting my children.
My children are young so I have many years ahead supporting them alone – £200 a year isn’t a lot but it helps buying a few things
All I have been reading about is fathers that don’t pay.
What about Fathers that do want to pay? The CSA make it easer because my ex wife lied about not being paid.
The CSA actually provide me with evidence because initially after me and my ex wife separated I was paying for my children, but then my ex contact the CSA and told them I wasn’t paying a penny. I had to prove to the CSA that I was paying but because she wanted more money she tried to lie.
Eventually the CSA realised what was going on and did not back date payments as I had already paid. I am happy to contribute to my children and the CSA provide a safety net for me to do so.
The CSA provide me with proof of payments although I do not wish to pay additional fees.
I feel it has to be a charge incurred by both resident and non resident parent otherwise it is open to abuse by the resident parent as it was in my case.
I think the biggest problem is that they are trying to fix many situations and scenarios with one answer. Because every one and every situation is different and unique they are never going to get it right whatever system they decide on.
Totally agree with the above.to add…How about mr x amd mrs y have a few one night stands..she says she on protection then has bun in oven!!! Mrs y says to mr x you don’t have to see / pay nothing but I am keeping it. Mr x did not and does not want this just yet!! After no contact one day bam csa through the door mr x is made to pay 250 monthly! Mr x is not very happy with mrs y!! Mrs y now has benefits, csa, a new partners wage and rich mummy and daddy and mr x is left struggling for 21 yrs!! Csa is all about the parent with care with not a thought of mr x!! While she swans around in the best clobber from all her incomes. Let’s be honest not a penny will go on the child! Of course the mother arnt going to want to pay they want the daddy to pay. On what farther do pay no wounder so many stay at home mums!! But every situation is different which is why 1 system will not work.
I completely agree with this. My husband got a girl pregnant, they weren’t together but she decided to keep it. When the child was born she turned round and told him “I don’t want you to have anything to do with it, it’s probably not yours anyway”. 8 years later we have our own child and a letter from the CSA lands on our doorstep, they want £40 a week out of his wage!! It’s like giving a stranger our hard earned money because she decided she is skint?! She was never interested before so why should she be allowed to put in a claim after 8 years? She has a fella with a good job, will probably get benefits and definitely CSA so why should she be entitled to our money?
Oh and we couldn’t afford to pay it so my husband had to give up work to be a stay at home dad, he had to sell his car and we had to move to a cheaper house all because of her greed. I don’t think she has even thought or cares about the damage she has done to our lives and future
Well when my ex got into Facebook that messed our relationship up and said she had no feelings for me .
So I moved out to my brothers left but still kept paying the 600 pound a month mortgage for 6 months . Fair I think so any way we agreed when her mom brought me out the house that I would pay her 150 pound a month for my son yes 1 kid so soon has her mom brought me out 3 days after she got the CSa on me great ex Ay. So ended up paying 200 pound amonth but she had another son from her previous which her ex don’t pay for but thinks I’m his dad but she still wants to pay for him too and birthday presents and Xmas presents I do spend what I can on both of them treat them equal I think personally the government should do a set rate per child it’s not a bout how much you earn it’s about the child having enough money each week. That should go straight across the board
My one mate pays CSa they get more than a grown adult unemployed can’t work it out your prob get what 65 week on unemployed but you pay to your ex 60 a week or even more for 1 child where grown up has his own place too and bills and lives alone with no child tax credits or child benefit or CSa payments god that’s 3 lot of income to your ex straight away dad are the victims All needs to be looked at again if not I think British airways are going to have alot customers good luck everyone hope it all works out for you
Ok It is time the goverment stopped allowing unemployed women to kjeep all of the money as we all know they will never get a job, another thing the goverment really needs to sort out the mess they are in regarding siblings when one decides to live with one parent who doesent work and the other lives weith the one who does work, can you tell me why the person who sits on their backside and doesent work gets more money a week than the person who does work? that in itself is totally wrong.
The whole system needs to be readdressed, whilst there is injustice to a lot of mothers, there is also a lot of injustice to a lot of fathers. The trouble is, each situation is different and a number of factors aren’t taken into account that should be. I am all for fathers contributing towards their children. In my situation, my husband has 2 children with his ex wife and he was totally stung in the divorce settlement … She was left with an awful lot of equity in the property and he, hardly anything in comparison to what the property was worth, anything that could and couldn’t be deducted from his settlement was! Basically my husband didn’t want to make the situation anymore difficult for his children than it was, so he went along with it. He then paid £50 per week to his ex wife for the children … Even though we couldn’t afford it and built up debt doing so. Then we got into real financial difficulty after 3 years of paying £50 per week and missed 11 payments over a 6 month period … And it took her 6 months to notice we’d missed these payments … That’s how bad a situation she’s in. She then demanded all the money in an extra £50 per week or she was going to the c/a. Well, we just didn’t have a £100 per week to give her and so she went to the csa. In some ways it has worked out better as, based on my husbands income she got less than we were giving because we simply can’t afford it, but based on the fact she intended to use the csa as a weapon rather than a mediator suggests that there needs to be some reform.
If I was left all the equity she was left, I’d thank my lucky stars and wouldn’t even have the cheek to ask for anymore money. Now, my husband loves his children and wants the best for them and has always contributed, yet, due to his missed payments she told the children he didn’t contribute towards them, which wasn’t the case and created insecurities in them that are totally unfounded. It may be impractical to review each case on an individual basis, but something must be done to make it more fair and maybe take divorce settlements into account.
I am in a very similar situation to ‘Anonymous’ and it has broken my heart watching my partners relationship with his children deteriorate because of the mothers’ greed for more money.
My partner and his ex agreed on an amount to support the needs of the kids each month, which worked well for 3 years (until I came along) and then she started demanding more money (my income), threatening him with the CSA. She told the children that their father had lots of money that he didn’t want to share with them.
My partner contacted the CSA and found out that he was paying her more than he should have and that my earnings were nothing to do with his maintenance payments.
2 years on and his relationship with the children are at an all time low, my partner has tried explaining the situation (from his point of view), has shown them letters from the CSA verifying the amount he should pay and his bank statements to prove that he has not missed a payment but the mother has said it’s lies.
There is no system in the world that will accommodate emotions but surely family mediation should be compulsory prior to contacting the CSA or financial agreements being made. This way the kids could say what the felt to both parents and as a result, may impact how the mother/father behaves afterwards.
I genuinely feel that mothers use their children to manipulate their ex’s much more than fathers do.
Some good views here and the odd closed mind typical view too :-/ unfortunately every situation is different! I hate being judged by the csa but sadly they do nothing in favour of poor old mr smith! I pay the maintenance I’m told to and spend 400 pounds a month in travelling costs to see my son on top of this! This is not to mention the half day off work twice a week every week to drive 3 hours down the road and see my son, then feed him! There are dedicated dads out there believe it or not and I’m proud to be one of them! I’m glad there are going to be changes! Change means I might just be able to use the new system to restart my financial goals and life without being forced into a financial corner by both csa and my ex! Maybe the csa has just proved that it supports the mean and greedy too! Goes both ways
The Truth is if both parents were not hooked up on greed for money they would realised that children needs both parents other than the woman trying to get rich from the husband. Look at a senario where the CSA took £108,000 out of a fathers account. Reality check…. where on earth will this money go? (CSA pockets) Does puting food on the table for a child cost £108,000.
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We need to make changes to the CSA
One the monthers income needs to be looked at
If a mum is single, she well get income support, tax credits and child benefit.
The CSA want to put money on top of this.
Effectively the mum dosnt need to work
If a mum works then her income should be based on her net income
A mum can claim tax credits and child benefit while working
If a mum is with a partner and her partner earns say £20 thousand
She wont hardly get any tax credits and will be able to still get child benefit but she will also have her partners income to live on.
The Csa want to put money on top of this
If a mum is with a partner and they are both earning together £20 thousand they will hardly get any tax credits but will still get child benefit
The Csa want to put money on top of this
Two the farthers income needs to be looked at
If the farther is claiming benefits he will either have job seekers or disability living allowance
If the farther is working his earning should be based on his net income
If a dad works he is therefore a tax payer and by being a tax payer he is contributing towards tax credit payments.
Either way weither the mother is single or not the mother will alwaus benefit more because she is entitled to child benefit and tax credits.
Mothers should also be given a time limt, say for instance they only have two years in which they can apply for csa and if they dont within that time they can never apply for it.
My personal experience of the csa
i have a 2 year old with my x partner.
My x partner claims dla at high rate mobility at middle and incapacity
He gets approx £600 in benefits per month
The csa pay me £5 per week
My partner has two daughters.
he has one daughter that he sees and has a mutual agreement with her to pay her £110 per month but in the past when she has moved hes paid for things that she needed like oven washing machine etc.
His x wife who is other daughter is to tried forcing him to pay for the morgage and wasn’t willing to pay anything and because of this she disapeared with his child.
Now after seven years she has put in a claim for csa
and they said they wanted £50 per week
we told them about the mutual agreement with the other one and they wernt bothered about it so we put her on as well and now its £68 a week
my partner earns £20 thousand approx
We dont get any tax credits because of my partners income
on a monthly basis we get £1600 but our direct debit payments are £1300
so that means after our DIRECT DEBITS only we only have £300 left and the CSA want that £300
what are we suppose to do for food, etc
If the goverment didn’t have the CSA and they spent the amount of money they had spent on it and given it to tax credits, everyone would have some money from tax credits even people that had say 20 thousand a year.
Most farther now find them seleves having no option but to quit work and to go onto benefits.
by doing so the goverment is losing money in income tax and nics
say for instance a dad dosnt want to pay csa but he works, weither he likes it or not hes paying towards the child because his income tax and nics are paying for tax credits.
Effectively dads are paying tax credits and child maintenance
We can’t let the goverment get away with what they are doing.
These changes have only been proposed to save the strain on the CSA by forcing parents into private arrangements. However, any NRP that does that is placing themselves in risk of the CSA returning 6 months, 12 months or even several years down the line and demanding arrears for unpaid maintenance, whether they have paid or not. There will be no appeal, no way of proving that you have paid – if you’re PAYE the first you’ll know about it is when your pay is lighter.
My son is on Job seekers and pays the mother of his baby £20-25 a week for his baby and she wanted him to pay more and kept threatening to take him to the CSA (I checked the website and used there calculator and he should only pay a maximum of £5 if he as no contact but he has him every other weekend so he only has to pay 6/7th of this. So there are some nice guys out there.
I haven’t seen the new calculator so I cant comment on that but if the baby’s mum finds out about it I’m sure she’ll be trying to get more money out of him
A bit of background
Although they are not together the mother and baby lived at ours for the first 5 months of the baby’s life as she couldn’t cope then her and the baby moved out for a couple of months. Then after an incident before Christmas the baby was put into my sons care for two months until the social worker was confident that she could look after the baby again.
He was signed off Job seekers by some jobs worth and not given any help signing onto another benefit. during this time the mother was still getting the child benefit and loan parent benefits and we were left to help him out as best as we could.
And as of this weekend the baby has again been put in the care of my son by social services as the mother decided to threaten to throw herself and the baby off the bridge (telling my son to say goodbye to his son for the last time).
yet again he as been left high and dry with no sort of financial help. The baby’s mum can only see the baby supervised at a centre in out local town. The mother has been offered her bus fare to get there but my sun has to take the baby there and has not.
So it seems to me the system is completely biased towards the mother
I have 2 children & yes their dad does pay CSA. He pays it reluctantly & where ever possible works the system. I was with him for 8yrs & at not point during that time did he pay towards our children. He wanted us to split up & now at every opportunity does he throw things at me, he is very bitter, sends nasty txt messages. He has a contact order & has now decided not to have our children on his allocated days. He has now moved on & found himself a lady friend who in turn wants nothing to do with our children. She has moved in with him & has made our children feel that they should not be there. Their dad is their dad but only when it suits him, I can not afford to go out drinking, going to the gym yet he says he has no money but goes out every other weekend & gets P****d. Yes I agree there are dad’s out there that pay for their children & want to help out when ever possible but on the other hand you have dad’s that don’t. My children’s dad pay £180.00 pr month. He has a contact order which says he has both our children Mon – Fri from 3 – 6 & if in that time he is unable to pick them up from school it is his reponsibility to sort our his child care needs. Now he has his new lady friend he has less & less time for our children, I have asked him to give them up rather then mess them around like he is as it is not fair on them.
when does the amount of money you are paying go down i pay £65 a week to my son’s mother. i was told it reduce’s when the child is 14 don’t believe that any way i am on the old system i have asked to go on the new system but to no joy if i was on the new system i would pay £38 a week. i had a mutual arrangement with my ex i paid£100 a month but still bought all my son’s clothe’s took him on holiday, but like a lot of mother’s got gready and went behind my back she also gets working tax credits,family allowance what do the father’s get nothing time you pay your morgage,bill’s etc not a lot left also i have my son on a wednesday and friday night so i feed him 4 nights a week. not in all cases but a lot of women are playing the system, the money we pay our ex partners is tax free to them as we have already paid the tax on this.
My husband of 9yrs walked out on me and our two children into the arms of someone he met on the internet. He has had no contact with our children for a year and has paid no money for them. I’m on benefits due to ill health after a brain hemorrage, i suffer chronic pain on a daily basis and i’m struggling to survive. My ex is working full time and pays nothing, has ignored all letters and calls from CSA because he knows eventually he’ll have to pay for his children and why shouldn’t he? The next step is an attatchment of earnings and i believe this is the right thing to do and i’m far from greedy, it took two of us to make our children, so why should he be able to walk away as if they don’t exist?
Bring on the changes to the CSA! My husband is currently paying a whopping £470 per month to his ex wife for the support of his two children of which he never see’s as they do not care for the father. The very rare occasions we do spend with the children are spent buying them clothing and shoes as the items they come and stay with us are too small. He is emotionally blackmailed into buying school clothing and we also take them on holiday!
The proposes changes would be good for us. She would not like the idea of having to pay fees and would be more inclined to want a private agreement. The current CSA payments are crippling us. With me currently out of work expecting our first, we cannot afford to live at the moment.
I have been paying child support on the original system since 2001. I finnish paying in another four yaers time. Untill last christmas I was paying £535 a month for two children. when my eldest child turned 19 last december I now pay £438 a month for one child foer the next four yaers. On completion of my CSA payments I will have given my children over £96300. . In all of that time I have still been expected to provide birthday and christmas presents. If i want to see them I have to travell from county to county to pick them up and drop them off in one day. I have provided food and new clothing on many occasions with no thank you from niether my ex or my children. My children have always been told that they get evrything prvided by thier mother. she has had all the credit without the financiel burden. I, on the other hand, have had all of the responsibilities of fatherhood with very little of the pleasure. As a result of the outragouse financial demands placed upon me by my ex and her best mates, the CSA, my relationship with a wonderfull woman fell apart as I became obsessed with fighting this desgustingly aggressive and unsympathetick government department. My mental health also deteriorated as a result of the constant stress upon me. Changes may come and go with the CSA but people on the origional system take note!! YOU WILL BE LEFT TO ROTT ON THIS SYSTEM!!!!. Youre cases are too complicated to re asess says those clever, well educated and prffessional employees in the assessmant department. I have spent years without heatig in the winter, poor diet, flushing my toilet once a day, using my car for work only and walking the rest of the week, poor living conditions as a result of having no extra money to maintain my home!!! Oh well! just four more years to go!! SHAME ON YOU CSA!!!!!!!
jonny, thats terrible, I cant stand greed, I have 3 children, I revieve £20 a week from their dad through the csa, yet me and my partner pay£45 a week for his son from a previous relationship. Why? its not because my partners earns alot, he works for little over minimum wage, its because his greedy ex saw pound signs when he moved in with me because she was able to claim my child tax credits including my sons disability elemnt, I find it totally immoral that the csa can take money that is intended to suppot other children, and give to another child whos mother is already claiming child tax credits and to take the disability element is an outrage. I dont understand how a mother can accept money that is intended for someone elses children, they are entitled to opt out with the csa and just recieve money from the fathers earnings (the way it shouold be) despite how little I get from my ex husband I would never ever accept his current partners tax credits
Just reading these posts and got angry reading some and sad at others. I understand there are different sides to every story and no system will please all. However if a father decides to walk out on his family (2 days before christmas) to be with another woman then he should pay for his children. The CSA in my case give him a discount for his new partners children. This would be ok but his partner has 4 children by 4 different men (nice women). All these “fathers” are paying CSA payments to their children. This means in my ex’s household it is being supported by 5 working adults. One of these “fathers” is a millionaire. Would you not think they would tell the CSA to not take that discount – but no he pays the smallest amount – he owns his own business so writes his payslips and thus is on min wage. A system only works if all are honest and decent. I know there are men out there that are decent and pay for their children but sadly my ex is not one of them. I wish you all luck whatever your story and lets remember its all for the benefit of the children afterall.